Roleplaying in game

[Grillmonkey]

I have never played a mmorpg where the vast majority of players roleplayed ingame.. I had a friend tell me that in AC I they did, and so I went and bought ACII.. blah no roleplaying :casstet:
And then when I got into a monarchy I thought well heres where the fun starts! :casstet: it didnt, but thats enough whining.
I think a MMORPG need some level of roleplaying in order to be really fun.
How many of you are planning on roleplaying their characters not like, borderline mental case roleplaying but just give it at least a nod during gameplay?

[DigitalMastermind]

I'll always be roleplaying to some extent, but the goal is to continue my long standing tradition of superior, nonstop, completely immersive roleplaying events/activities. It's just what I do best as a nonviolent hobby.

[Strofer]

It would be nice if everyone roleplayed, but that just isn't going to happen. Perhaps we could have options within the chat channels, for instance, an entire channel devoted to roleplay. If for arguements sake, someone spoke to you for the first time, you could direct them to the roleplay channel if they wanted to speak to you further.

[DigitalMastermind]

I would like that too Strofer, a good addition to the list of channels I already laid out. Roleplaying Only. It has it's uses too. Like if you see someone out there in the vast'yonder or whatever, you can shout out real quick, "Hey! Join me in the RP channel if you want to interact without me ignoring you!" :P And then even if it was a hostile, you'd be able to go about things with some semblance of justification. If they didn't want to join, speaking wouldn't pinpoint you, but at least then you knew their true intentions before you got any closer based on their reactions. The channel would have to be distance limited though. Realistically if possible... Base the range of your RP text being heard by your character's constitution/health plus maybe a slight boost from your level. Terrain amplification if at all possible would be nice. Such as shouting from a mountain top would yield, or down into a valley. It should all be possible with EAX enabled.

[onebeer]

Some MMORPG's will dedicate a server (or two) to people who want to roleplay. It is assumed you will roleplay and will actually get booted if you don't. DAOC is one that comes to mind.

[DigitalMastermind]

DnL will only have one server period...

[Kidas52]

RolePlaying Should be the main goal of every MMORPG. Thats what the RP stands for ROLEPLAYING but most games have forgot all about the story behind the game. ANd based everything on Leveling armor and killing the highest level bosses.

*Points a Huge Finger At Everquest*

But Dnl, or atleast our guild will never let DNL turn into EQ =P.

[detritus]

Yea I roleplay, and I enjoy it, but I dont hold a grudge againsed the people who dont stay in character all the time, so long as we don't get any l33t sp33k ruining the feel of the game, and it does. you can always try to imagine the people not in character as having a very neutral personality, but l33t is obviously out of character to the extent that the players KNOW how irritating it is to the majority of gamers. it is un-natural and very distracting, and i hope that it gets adressed in DnL (elitist attitude is comming out i know, but this is one of the few points that I feel VERY strongly about), and may god have mercy on the souls of anyone i catch talking l33t ingame, 'cos i sure as hell won't show them any **random growling**

[Edited on 6/11/2003 by detritus]

[behr]

RolePlaying Should be the main goal of every MMORPG.
Almost

Every MMORPG should devoted to roleplay...
Because the mmorpg is the tool proposed to a community to build a epik story...

Sorry for the interruption. Keep on discussing... I am carefully listing.

[Edité le 6/11/2003 par behr]

[Afnan]

I think that all that is needed to get a large amount of players to rp is to give a substantial bonus to those who are continuously remaining in character and adding to the atmosphere of the game.

I read in one of the recent dev chats that rp'ers will have more luck, though that's all they said, so not much info(as usual). Personally, i will always remain in character regardless of what is going on around me.

[Edited on 7/11/2003 by Afnan]

[Grillmonkey]

well, there are going to be GM's. . It wouldnt be that hard of a strech to allow them to reward people who RP constantly.

[Kidas52]

but how are GMs suppose to reward people for roleplaying when only a few can encompass the whole game. Which is huge, 40,000sqmk!

[Afnan]

could work on a point system like what was suggested to the fame system, everyone gets one point a month or so that they can distribute to anyone they choose as a good rper.

[Kidas52]

A point system for ppl that rp? What would be the reward? I dont see it happening like that. But maybe they will. Who knows....

[Afnan]

I dont either, its just an example, we'll just have to wait till we get some info from the devs. Untill then we realy cant say much about how it should/will be done, but i think it would make the game quite a bit more fun to play to have a good percentage of the population remain in-character.

[DigitalMastermind]

The only way you could do it is by entrusting the players with the ability to deem each other worthy of some experience/reward for roleplaying. An example would be UO, where you would type "I Honor Thee" & you click on the person. You then bow via emote and transfer some karma (or was it fame?) to that character you're honoring. Each player gets an allotment of roleplaying points they can give out either based on durations or based on the characters level etc. They were also going to reward roleplaying by writing code to notice when partys were assembled realistically with like no fairys and trolls in the same group etc. If you had a party where everyone meshed togethor then you'd gain experience faster or get beneficial buffs or something.

[Kidas52]

well thats a good thought.... but people could go around buying rp points from players or gms could just force everyone in there guild to give him all their points.

[Afnan]

Now why do you give it a second thought when he says it and not when i say it? all he did was expand on my first suggestion. :casstet: (not being hostile to you dig)

[Edited on 9/11/2003 by Afnan]

[DigitalMastermind]

It's easier to give something a second thought when you surround it with reason and feasability. *Looks on over to Kidas* I suppose they could, but then they're screwing themselves and others when the function is removed... You can't protect everything against players being dumb@$$es :( Like I said though, toss limits on it per person, per level, per week or whatever. With a limited amount to work with, you're not as likely to see people just ditching them. It could also be an optional system that's only available to characters level 10 and above. So no one's making new characters just to toss points. Maybe the RP tokens should cost gold or experience from the initial person. 'Lot less likely to screw around when it costs you something. It's a system for honoring roleplayers after all, there has to be a sacrifice that makes it worth noting beyond community recognition.

[Taurendil_Cuweasse]

I think the best way is to be roleplaying all the time, and the immortals (invisible gms, etc) go around the world checking out what people are doing. If they see someone roleplaying, they reward them with something, maybe even a quest, like sending a messenger npc to meet the players and deliver them a scroll. And you would never know if you are being watched or not, so gamers would have to roleplay all the time or they might miss a great chance to get rich/experience/special things.

[Grillmonkey]

Taurindil thats a good idea, I like the Idea of being able to honor people that you think are doing a good job aswell.
Maybe they could have a fusion of the two systems.

[Kidas52]

Yes Taur but alot of people still miss out because such a lower number of gms to travel this huge world is going to be hard. Maybe they will make it work fully i dont know... i know i will be roleplaying anyway even if i dont get a prize if someone catches me doing it.

[detritus]

what if the devs assigned certain players roles of acting as GMs, sort of like the mods on these boards. they wouldn't be able to say who they were or they would have their powers taken away, but it would encourage people, if they intended to RP, to RP all the time because ANYONE could be the one checking for roleplay activity. Like all systems, it is open to abuse from certain people, but if the GMs are carefully selected, it could work...

[Tinok]

/ooc I know this is an old post and I might get flamed for bringing it back up, but this topic is near and dear to my heart...I believe EQ now allows for your name to go...purple I think, if you wish to let people know you are RPing. It would then be easier for a GM to see who they should be zoning in on...so to speak. Also, a ear;ier poster was correct, DAoC has dedicated RP servers...I know this will not be an option with DnL...

[DigitalMastermind]

Hrmm cool, I like that idea :)

[Lahor]

I believe EQ now allows for your name to go...purple I think, if you wish to let people know you are RPing. It would then be easier for a GM to see who they should be zoning in on...so to speak.

Yeah good idea.
And when the GM then finds out that that person is in fact not roleplaying he gets a -1. When a player gets to -10 or so he cannot change his name back to the roleplaying colour.
Maybe im too harsh, I dont know. But it could act as a tool to keep people from abusing the RP-sysytem and thus improve clarity and gaming pleasure for those that want to meet fellow RP players.

[Tinok]

That is a good idea as well Lahor...denote the characters who are in roleplay and then when a GM sees the character slip up OR do very well...they get a plus or minus. I think this would be a great way...the next question is....what does the +/- do for or against your character?
You do not want to give or take things that are tangible, because for those who do not want to RP, they should not be at a disadvantage...would it just be a way to allow you to be part of this RP "community"?

[Nevar_Darkmoon]

Aye... RPing... as far as I am concerned any idea that promotes or furthers the idea of roleplaying should be considered and than implimented.

Just to play devils advocate here though. Everyone pays a subscription fee... so they are allowed to play the game as they so choose. I hate this... but the players that are normally griefing or driving the RPers to the brink of madness will stand on this and it is difficult to argue against.

As for the purple name like in EQ... its convient if you are a RPer looking for others. BUT it also makes you a target to the PvPer focused gamers. Generally RPers are not known for their superiour PvP skills. (excluding me of course :P) and so become easily identified by their grovey coloured name and than quickly slaughtered by the twitch players.

Enforcement or governing of RP in this realm is going to be insanely difficult due to its collosal size. So my suggestion is... (I cant be all negative without adding something constructive.) Have the Immortals watching for the RPers like was previously meantioned. Instead of rewards, which are a cheap gift for RPing in my book, have the RP orientated person rewarded with a focus in an event or privy to some lost information that will further their personal RP or their guilds/factions. Rewarding roleplaying with increased story immersion will open a few of the "Kill them all" focused people as they may want to get their history into the world.

And again the devils advocate side of me... what of the guild that is focused on being "evil" where say griefing and killing easy victims is part of their RP or guild charter? Should they be discredited for playing this way?

RP.. so so hard to govern in a free enviroment.

You could just get a group of whip wielding, orange sucking monkeys that run around smacking people that are not RPing, i know it would get my attention.

[Tinok]

LOL, I cannot get the whole Monkey with the Orange thing out of my head, thanks a lot Nevar!

I am of like mind with griefers I believe, but in the roleplay sense you are right, they would be "in there element"....I believe in this type of environment that maybe adding in lvl based PvP would go a long way...so, maybe you can only PvP with characters within ten lvl's or so...sigh, I know, then you have the whole 8 on 1 scenario...tough one....okay, it's been a long day, I will stick to the RPing thing and worry about griefers some other time... :o

[Lahor]

what does the +/- do for or against your character?
You do not want to give or take things that are tangible, because for those who do not want to RP, they should not be at a disadvantage...would it just be a way to allow you to be part of this RP "community"?

Well I think Giving roleplayers an extra advantage in game would be discriminatingto the players that dont rp. So I dont think that would be fair.
The - points I suggested -no + points- was in relation to players that want to roleplay being able to choose to have their name displayed in another colour or to have some other indication on them so that other players who want to roleplay can easily recognise eachother. That way it would be possible to roleplay and 'avoid' players that dont want to roleplay to make it easier to stay in character.
If a player is using the roleplaying indication and a GM notices that that player in fact isnt roleplaying he would get a -. When a player reaches -10 he may not use the roleplaying signal again. I thought this addition could eliminate possible abuse or misuse of the roleplaying signal.

Well maybe roleplaying characters could receive special rewards but I dont think those rewards should be items or higher stats. That would give rp'ers an advantage to non-rp'ers and that wouldnt be fair i think. Maybe the 'award'could be more of a historical or honorable kind. Like for instance a rp'er known throughout the rp community could see his name one day mentioned in a book on merchandising or in the school where 'new' characters learn to be a trader.... I havent really thought much about this idea yet but I think rewards for rp'ing should be orientated in this sence rather than stats or items.

[Tinok]

Agreed Lahor, anything other than honorable mention type rewards will be unbalanced. Plus not all play the game for the RP aspect as an earlier poster stated.

Lots of good stuff here, wish we could have someone put it together... ;)

[DigitalMastermind]

Well I think Giving roleplayers an extra advantage in game would be discriminatingto the players that dont rp. So I dont think that would be fair.

Considering this is a MMORPG I think it's entirely fair and there should most certainly be a system in place to encourage those whom actually enhance the atmosphere of the game's existance, rather than just filling in another subscription for the company.

[Nevar_Darkmoon]

Considering this is a MMORPG I think it's entirely fair and there should most certainly be a system in place to encourage those whom actually enhance the atmosphere of the game's existance, rather than just filling in another subscription for the company.

A believer... I agree with ya. RP is in the title.

Stretching the imagination muscles for some people is scary... its close to independant thinking. Hard to be hard on people that dont wish to RP...

Even the Devs are devoting a large number of realms to pvp aspect of this game. PvP can if done correctly *keeps fingers crossed* be a great lead, finish, and augument to role playing. Some of the best stories in recorded history revolve around battle... take a look at Homer's work with Troy in the Iliad. All around a battle.. but still one of the best reads i have had the pleasure to experience. A more current reference.. LOTR. (please dont shoot me.. just a reference not bringing up info :P) Big battle acts as a climax.

Balance between the two... hard to pull off. My thumbs are up for the DnL team though :thumbup:

[Tasital]

Nevar, you're doing an inordinate amount of posting on this forum recently and you didn't even make a post on our own boards just to say hi. :P But I agree with ya, as would the rest of the Guard. PvP can be a great way to add to an RP environment if done properly. After playing 4 different MMORPG's, I'm still looking for one that has both effectively. A number of them don't even have PvP and, honestly, fighting monsters is just dull. So far I'm liking the structure of this game. I have high hopes for the DnL team as well.

[Tinok]

DM: You and I seem to agree on many topics here and I am a big believer in the RP in MMORPG...that being said, I think anything other than an honorable "gift" would be unfair...unfortunatley we have more who choose not to RP than RP...look at most other MMORPG's and history shows us this...but a game that gives away to powerful an item to RPers will chase away the non-RPers (I know in theory this would not be all bad) and could potentially hurt the subscription base that is needed for long term survival of a game...

Sort of a necessary evil.....unfortunatley for us RPers....

[DigitalMastermind]

Screw em, I'll pay 20-30 a month to do without their presence o.o

[Tinok]

Shhhh, you cannot let the Dev Team know we would pay more for that!

[Lahor]

Actually I dont think 20-30$ a month would break even. I may be wrong on this one but I think in most mmorpgs The RP'er/non-RP'er balance is about 1/10 or 1/5 at best. So subscription fees would come to a staggering hight of 50-100$ :(
Then again if a mmorpg were to dedicate itself to true RP'ers im sure word would get around in the gaming comunity and a lot of RP'ers from other games might decide to quit the game they are currenly playing and join the RP-dedicated game. But still, it would take a while and the gap to cross might turn the company bankrupt so I doubt any company would dare trying to cross it...
I guess the best way for RP'ers to get the most RP'ing pleasure out of a game is by forming their own in-game community and try to avoid non-RP'ers.

[Nevar_Darkmoon]

Gah... to bring up Shadowbane once more. (this game haunts me), but here goes.

In game was a guild that worshiped a god that wasnt even part of the pantheon in the game, it was a different system all together. They had their reasons... and it was justified in their eyes. The Roleplayers groaned and where quickly dealt a swift kick in the ass as this guild was a very strong PvP guild compared to the level that was current on the server. To spare you the details of the middle the result was that even though they kept their idea of RP that didnt make any sense.. including to the event coordinators, respect had to be given to their skill and their tenacity for "their" lore. If i was in a game where the god they worshiped was actualy in the pantheon, i would have said they were tremendous RPers. Soo.. They werent leaving.. that left the only way to deal with it was to adopt their twisted ideas into an RP sense. The guild i was in ignored for the most part their god and dealt with the fact they represented evil and had a desire to turn everyone into undead. (being undead is the worst insult to a Ranger Brotherhood) So we just played against them accordingly.

The moral is, sometimes adapatation will allow you to over come anothers RP that just doesnt jive. Trust me i wanted to stab my eyes out most of the time i had to deal with them... but being an RPer, you just have to roll with it sometimes. :P

I still think a large orange eating monkey with whips of annhilation that punish those that dont roleplay would be the best way to go.

(on a side not to the PvP orientated guilds. I am not slamming you here. I admitt i despise the "general" trend of your griefer habits and you l33t ways and wtfpwnd newb screams, but you do add a challenge. I just wish you could simmer and find the middle ground)

Edit: i really should read my proof read the post before sending. (hehe even that doesnt help to much)

[Edited on 27/11/2003 by Nevar_Darkmoon]

[Tinok]

I think the way you adapted to the "rogue" guild was a good RP move. In real life there are those that worship and do things that are not the norm or even legal. We in r/l have to deal with those people. So, RPing this guild made sense.

They believe in a god that does not belong to the current patheon, but maybe this group thinks they have or have discovered a tome that speaks of an old god that is no longer worshipped or talk of a new god begins....sounds cool to me...

**Please note, this are just MO and having never played SB, I must say that I am not defending this other guild, which may have been WAY overboard, I am only defending the premise I put forth**

[SiriaCessmera]

I still think a large orange eating monkey with whips of annhilation that punish those that dont roleplay would be the best way to go.


Stop trying to convince my Haliit to join your forces. Provided the price is right, I *may* be able to rent him out to you for a short period, I do know that he is learned in the art of whipping...lets say you give me back my tighty whitey's and maybe 3 cookies and you can have him for a week, alright?



Back on subject however, the balance of RP to PVP is a barrier that I don't think can ever be reached. In games that have seperate servers, such as PvP only servers or RP only servers, both go to the extreme of their genre and become unfun to play.

Adding to what Tinok said, in a way these PvP, d00d speak, jacka**es that are so stereotypical in almost every game, DO add to the RP atmosphere. After all, we see these kind of people all over the real world, its more realistic to see these kind of people in a fantasy like setting as well. I mean whats to say that all people who lived in medieval spoke perfect olde english?

[Nevar_Darkmoon]

WHAT... you want your tighty whities back? You game them to me as a gift... so never.

I will give you a shiney new set of sheers though... i have had them plated in gold. Will that work as a substitute for the tighties?

You also struck on a point about how language was used in the ancient times. hehe we read Homer, Shakespere, Dikens, ect. and we think the language of those times was prestien and poetic. It was FAR FAR from that. There are some common scripts that have survived the times that show just how foul mouthed the common folk were. Also.. take a look at the graffiti that is still around (The Roman graffiti all through the pyramids) and you will see the first inseptions of d00d speak.

So i guess what i am saying here.. is maybe they are actually making the gaming experience more realistic.

Of course with this realization i am going to have to go shoot myself. Naked of course. :casstet:

[SiriaCessmera]

*smiles wickedly* yes those gold plated shears should server nicely, though if you happen to have diamond shears as well...I suppose I could toss in an extra week for you and the monkey to bond.

[Tinok]

Sigh, yes, I must say that although I love to RP, I am far from fluent in the old languages....so to speak... ;)

I will stay within my character and his history....and that, to me is good enough....it is just to hard for me to walk and chew gum at the same time... ;)

[Nevar_Darkmoon]

*chew* :casstet: *chew* :casstet:

Its okTinok.. i suffer the same kind of issue when i try to dress.

[Haliit]

Yes, sadly Siria keeps me in a cage in her closet. I am under her control atm, but if she lets me out we can work on that army.

But there will never be an army of whip-wielding orange eating monkeys unless you find me a lady monkey.


Back onto the topic at hand....

The guild in SB that RPed their own god did really stir things up. But without them even knowing they were doing it, they made a great RP move by making our guild the first they assualted when they came to our server. The Ranger's Brotherhood is the direct opposition to Undead, the Druids (like myself) hate them even moreso. So lucky for us, they were our perfect RP enemy. That is one skill a RPer and a RP guild need to have, the ability to adapt to the changes around them, even if the things someone is doing doesnt match with what you believe the "right" roleplay is, you need to find a way to adapt your RP around them.

[sivitri]

RP in game is fun you can become a pirate or even a dwarf in person ^_^
oh wait i hate dwarf maybe an elf in person :P

[Edited on 29/11/2003 by sivitri]

[Haliit]

I know a RL elf, his name is Voronwe. You should see a picture of him.

[Peachless]

On that SB topic... i would have just RPed it so that "my" guild belvied this non-storyline god to be a false idol.... just as it WAS according to the backround history

IE

Evil Necromancer (Sorry.. i really know nothing of Shadowbane.. work with me): The Mighty Sheeva Demands Sacrifce!

Rouge: Your self-fathomed gods will fall to the glory of the light!

[Tinok]

Well said Peachless...you summed up my thoughts in two lines...sigh, just like in R/L I just go on and on.....

[Nevar_Darkmoon]

Peachless.
For some reason i swear i know you from somewere. Did you play SB in either BoS, UDL or any of the subs of those? I think its your sig that does it.

I concur on your idea to "roll" with the other guilds RP. The problem was when they where trying to use their RP as the dominant RP including during GM run events. As you said... we did roll, to maintain our own sanity we just adopted them into the lore, kind of like a cancer.. you accept it.. doesnt mean you like it...and you try like hell to get rid of it.

[Navaar]

Ooo! another RP subject! Soz, I just saw it :(
Very good thoughts up there, tho I got 1 or 2 doubts...
You think a game as big as DnL would take some more detailed systems as 'tracking the RP-players' and honoring them?
Also, what of someone who states he RPs but keeps it to "verbal-RP"?
If I say: -Hail stranger, well met. Art Thou a Paladin class? What is thy str?
:casstet: Hmm.. That would or wouldn't get RP points?
And what if I make love to my girlfriend in the midle of nowhere and a "invinsible gm" aproaches? Should I be saying "I kiss thy mouth mylady"? lol (i keep it modest)

RP is a way to play, i dont think it can be ruled or imposed, eventhough i favor it.
We will just end up with power-lvlers acting RPing just to get benefits.
At least now I can spot them and avoid ;)

EDIT: I dont condemn power-lvlers nor ppl who won't RP.
I just think they make me go out of character, that's why I avoid them

[Edited on 4/12/2003 by Navaar]

[Papu]

RP, ah my favourite topic too. AC II really sucks, have to give you that Grillmonkey.

Well.. I just had to comment on some of the bull that's been talked here.
Something I can't seem to understand but please explain...
if you reward people who play RP, what the h*ll is wrong with that? Not fair you say.. hmm.. well let me think. Why are you playing the game then? I think I heard somewhere that this is a RP game. I'd raise my banner for RP players, screw the rest.

If someone enjoys just watching the stats go up I have an advice for you, get a life. I myself have better, a lot better things to do than that.. it's like watching the download bar when you are downloading Motley Crue's show ( over 700mb ) with 2.0 kb/s
get the picture... ?

I came up with one idea about leveling in the game. For people at higher levels
( no specific number here ) I'd say it would be totally fair to not let them
level more by just killing the same old spider or wolf or those damn monkeys.

It's totally realistic, and anyone who has ever practised anything at a higher level knows this is true. So you would have to kill more nasty monsters. Or lets ad more flavour,
you would have to find a teacher (NCP) that would teach you the skill for a reward.
And in real high levels you would have to perform quests or kill bosses etc. to gain the next level. And why not bring the gods to the picture. Doing them favours (ex for gaining extra powers or a boost) and so gaining their favour like preaching their message and converting people to weird religions and so on... anyone a priest ?

This is getting too long.. and the Osbournes is on.

[Revalence]

Yeah i got ac for the same reason not many role played. But from how people in the communtiy for dnl are i think their will be lots of role playing.